Homosexuality

[Buroabenteuer]

Unfortunately, the "good" Christians generally aren't vocal enough to outshout groups like Focus on Family and the Westboro Baptist Church.

Such is the bane of many an organized religious group and a frustration of my own for many years.

Yes, there are 'good' christians out there, by my standards, I certaintly dont't think all christians are bigots, as I was one of the 'good' ones myself for awhile, before I admitted to myself that I no longer considered myself a part of the religion. But I'm a complicated case and It would take too much to really define where im at; for now lets call it a "philosophically-christian agnostic"

As far as i've been able to tell, christians have been to filtering into one of two divergant groups: fundamentalist and Liberal christianity. Liberal christians tend to look at the philosophical themes of the bible and what they believe and rationalize a more "gentle" religion based upon their inherent values and carefule picking and choosing of bible readings and interpretations. Fundamentalists on the other hand, maintain that the bible is to be taken literally and that every sentence is to be taken as law (despite necessary interpretations undermining what is "literal" and condradictions within the bible) and tend to paint the picture of a very selective and unforgiving god.

So to define 'good' within the christian circles, I'd say it would include mostly the more liberal christian beliefs alongside a lack of pushing their religion down other people's throats, which can easily include more fundamentalist beliefs excepting that such is a little more rare.  

[Buroabenteuer]

Since this thread is generally titled, I think im entirely capable of posting some "Homosexuality Fun-Facts"

-Straight men's ring fingers are typically longer than their index finger. The same is typically true of lesbians and women with high sex drives. Alternatively, women statistically are shown to have similar index and ring finger lengths, as well as gay men (A mere statistic, no causal or effective identifying links to be found)

-Gay men statistically hit puberty before straight men

-In terms of cognitive patterns, men tend to favor spatial patterns and women tend to favor verbal patterns. Gay men have been shown to be statistically more like women in being more verbal.

-Certain structures of the inner ear are typically alike in both straight men and Lesbians (Less low-tone hearing capacity effectively)

-Each subsequent child a mother has after her first one has an added .9% chance of being homosexual.

-A certain prevalence of genes on the Y chomosone of a child acts as an antigen and causes the mother's immune system to produce certain antibodies that are shown to increase the likelihood of homosexuality in the next child.  

[Ruminating Skeptic]

What do you think? It's not wrong. There is a guy on YouTube by the name of Brett Keane, and his opinion is "If the Bible had never been written, would there be any reason to fear/hate homosexuality?" I think that is a really good point, and I can't dispute it. I'm not saying I've made up my mind, if anyone wants to dispute it I would be most pleased to hear another opinion.

I also don't see the problem with "Gay pride parades". Really, is there any difference between that and a normal parade? For example, the Calgary Stampede starts off every time with a parade, and yeah, they do have several Flames players on horses. Is that wrong? Do the Oilers fans have the right to tell us we can't do that? Are any of the other "pride parades" wrong? That's probably not the best arguement, but it's the only thing I can really back my opinion on. I'm one of those type of people who believe in the "I am me, if you got a problem with that talk2hand . And yeah, I do sometimes express my opinions loudly; I don't know if that could be classified as "shoving it in people's faces" because I'm not really directing it at anyone. Same goes for them.

I do hate homophobes as well. Now you may call that intolerant, "two wrongs don't make a right, except in math", or hypocritical. But how can I like/respect someone who not only doesn't respect me, but thinks I'm the scum of the earth, a moraless(sp) peice of trash?

Is your opinion effected by your religious beliefs? Atheism isn't a religion (yes I know I will be disputed on that; be warned, I'm armed with links).

Are you gay/bi/transexual? I'm Bi yes (haha, bismuth ^.^) I have no close friends (that I know of ninja ) that are GLBT (Q? what's Q, please excuse my ignorance). The one that does know and is straight has no problems with it, neither does my brother (although I think he's Bi too)

Have you had any specific issues with people of the opposite sexual orientation? I've gotten so used to reading slash I actually find Het rather strange; but I don't have an aversion to it.
No one has bashed me yet for being Bi, because I don't advertise (hell I couldn't even tell my BFF). I do however get beyond acrimonious when people use homosexuality as an insult: "oh that's gay" "you homo" etc. I swear the people in my school are deaf; the teachers tell them not to say it, but they do anyway stare

Well my wrist hurts, so I'll talk more later. I look forward to responses (although if this guild/forum is like all the other ones, I'll just get ignored domokun )

Jya ne,
GCA  

[Buroabenteuer]

The Q in LGBTQ stands for Questioning/Queer (yeah, both, you'll see it sometimes with either two q's or a q and a ? )


And as far as Atheism goes, while it may not technically be a religion, its still a spiritual belief. A belief in the non-existance of a deity is a belief on the matter of the metaphysical nonetheless.  

[Calixti]

"If the Bible had never been written, would there be any reason to fear/hate homosexuality?"

I've heard justifications stating that homosexuality is unnatural, therefore it is immoral. Problem is, such a statement is factually incorrect as homosexuality can be observed in nature. What's more, it invokes the naturalistic fallacy and begs the question of relative morality. ninja

There is also the idea that since homosexauls cannot reproduce with their partners, then we are a detriment to the species. But of course that would logically mean that heterosexual people who are either infertile or childfree are also detrimental to the species and ignores options like surrogacy, in vitro fertilisation, and adoption.

I can't address Biblical arguements very well, though, as I'm still studying the Bible and don't consider myself enough of an expert to debate the topic. I leave that to linaloki and Elf Lord Chiewn. domokun  

[Israk]

If memory serves to be correct, the bible tells us that god makes us who we are, but not that homosexuality is a sin. So, if being gay is something god made you, how can it be a sin? God would not want so many of is people to be living sins, for we are, after all "made in his image". I myself have bisexual and homosexual friends, I'm comfortable with it and even joke around. I myself am straight, but have been called gay for hugging other men, which aperently is gay, even though it happens between straight men in movies all the time. I've had a guy kiss me on the cheek before, yes I was slightly uncomfortable, but I was not bothered by it.  

[Aelis Mikilai]

I find it funny how threads like this often seem to start out with either a 50/50 split between pro and anti GLBTQ rights or a predominantly anti attitude. Then, the anti crowd seems to dwindle and all but disappear, with one occassional post here and there. I have to say, though, that many of you who are of the anti-GLBTQ rights opinion could benefit and maybe learn something from reading linaloki's topics on the subject. neutral  

[Timo Supremo]

Most people seem to think that homosexual attraction is something you are born with, or somesuch. I disagree, from my personal experiance it is a choice they make.  

[ArtemisLust]

I think it's fine. I'm bi.  

[ArtemisLust]

Timo Supremo

Most people seem to think that homosexual attraction is something you are born with, or somesuch. I disagree, from my personal experiance it is a choice they make.

Yep People choose to be gay. Hell half the gay people I know wish they wern't. You know half the s**t they go through day to day, being gay? People treating then like s**t, basically spitting on them.

yeah people choose that.  

[Calixti]

Timo Supremo

Most people seem to think that homosexual attraction is something you are born with, or somesuch. I disagree, from my personal experiance it is a choice they make.

The American Psychological Association disagrees.  

[Israk]

If they chose to be gay, and they hated the treatment they got, and wished they weren't gay, could choose not to, if it's their choice that is, what you said is more an arguement towards it being a born with thing. In that they don't want to be gay, but yet they can't seem to not be gay.  

[Buroabenteuer]

Timo Supremo

Most people seem to think that homosexual attraction is something you are born with, or somesuch. I disagree, from my personal experiance it is a choice they make.

What, might I ask, is your "personal experience" on the matter?

pending your answer, here's my quick two-cents:

People don't choose who they're attracted to. Take a moment and wonder how you know you're straight. Is it because of the sexual acts you've performed? no, you thought of yourself as straight long before you ever did anything sexual. Most likely, you just started liking girls randomely during adolescence, with exception to ealier crushes and whatnot. When kids first start crushing on each other, do they even know that the other sex is an OPTION? Probably not, seeing as how sexuality in general is rather alien to most children around the ages of 6-7 or such. Do you remember sitting in kindergarten and wondering whether you preferred men or women sexually? definitely not.

with exceptions to cognitive preferences, nobody chooses what they're attracted to, it just pops out at them. The only choice involved in sexual orientation is whether or not to act upon those feelings.  

[Shadow__Dweller]

Buroabenteuer

Timo Supremo

Most people seem to think that homosexual attraction is something you are born with, or somesuch. I disagree, from my personal experiance it is a choice they make.

What, might I ask, is your "personal experience" on the matter?

pending your answer, here's my quick two-cents:

People don't choose who they're attracted to. Take a moment and wonder how you know you're straight. Is it because of the sexual acts you've performed? no, you thought of yourself as straight long before you ever did anything sexual. Most likely, you just started liking girls randomely during adolescence, with exception to ealier crushes and whatnot. When kids first start crushing on each other, do they even know that the other sex is an OPTION? Probably not, seeing as how sexuality in general is rather alien to most children around the ages of 6-7 or such. Do you remember sitting in kindergarten and wondering whether you preferred men or women sexually? definitely not.

with exceptions to cognitive preferences, nobody chooses what they're attracted to, it just pops out at them. The only choice involved in sexual orientation is whether or not to act upon those feelings.

I agree with you. I don't think people have a choice whether they are straight or not. you can't force yourself to turn gay if you're straight, or vicer versa. I think it's just something you're "born with"...therefore I don't think people should consider Gay people are sinning, because it's not exactly their choice to be gay..to be honest I think there is very little evidence in the Bible to support the "anti-gay" attitude that some Christians have. I think that view is just held by people who don't like things that are different, things they might even feel threatened by..it's the same thing when a kid gets bullied at school for wearing glasses when no one else does..just because they're DIFFERENT.  

[Sin-of-Malice]

I'm bi and damn ******** proud. But that question's just like asking if Heterosexuality is wrong...damn, there's no difference. And it's not a sin; even in Christian's terms. They just don't actually stop to read or study their bibles. -sighs-

But love is love; no matter who it is. Prove to me being in love, fighting my life to protect and do my damnest to take care of someone is horribly wrong and then I'll consider it. = ="