Homosexuality

[Efstathios]

Er..

Then you want to make it illegal for heterosexual couples who are infertile or don't want children to get married?

I heard of these two men who were life partners for 20 years or more, the person he loved was in a hospital dying and he couldn't be by his side because he wasn't family or spouse.

The same privileges that apply to common-law marriages should apply to homosexual couples who fill all the requirements minus being of opposite genders.  

[Melancholy Demon]

look i see were it fits in society and all but those are my feelings on the subject, i don't think there should be laws a gainst it but moraly homosexuality don't sit right with me. as for the thing where the couples not geting same privilages as man and wife, while i don't think the problem should be their in the first place i do agree that they should get the same rights  

[Le Jour Vert]

A close friend of mine is actually a lesbian, and she actually has said she has or had a crush on me, but it doesn't really change our relationship since I'm straight and she knows that. I have to say it sucks, though.  

[[Psychotic.Ballerina]]

I'm fine with it. I'm straight and I respect their preference because they can love who they want to love.  

[Black Flame Siren]

I'm Bisexual, myself. I do have to agree that some of us over do it and get all in straight people's faces, however I have to point out that most of us are normal everyday people... You probably go by at least three of us on the streets on your way to work or school. In big cities, it's probably more like 10-20.

As for our parades, we have like one a year. I dont think its too much to ask for us to have one day a year where the more flamboyant of us can overdo it and have fun dancing in the street! Not to mention it's downright halarious watching men walk in high heels better than I can! *lol*

For gay marrige, I have to say I'm disappointed in America. We're supposed to be the land of the free where everyone has equal rights and freedom of beliefs. We stopped shoving religion down peoples' throats a long time ago, yet it's those super christain conservatives who are trying to prevent us from having legally recognized marriges on the grounds that it's 'immoral'. Their idea of 'immoral' comes from the bible and this country includes far more than just those who have a bible by their bedsides and the rest of us 'degradations to human society'.

Now, I'm a Christian, myself, but there's a limit to how much faith you put into a book that's been translated who knows how many times, has several books missing, and no one knows who really wrote it all down.

I believe in Jesus, his sacrifice, what he stands for, the Ten Commandments, and the Lord himself. That's about it.

Personally, I think that it was a mix of creationism and evolution that made to world what it is today. I think that nature has a higher part to play in homosexuality than most others give her credit for. While homosexuality may not be genetic, it is every bit as natural as heterosexuality. It's not a choice, it's not a fad, it's not a style, it's who you are. I remember when I was in the Second Grade I admired both boys and girls. I specifically remember walking up the steps of my school behind a girl and wondering if she would go out with me because I thought she was beautiful.

I was born the way I am and I know it.  

[Black Flame Siren]

XD Wow... I really stepped up on that soap box, didn't I? *lol*  

[Melancholy Demon]

i agree to an extent, and this is where i have to admite that i am a bite of a hypocrite, cause honestly lesbians don't bother me at all, but thats most likly not my brain talking,lol. i don't dowever believe that its part of nature, sorry if that perterbs you, cause nature makes thing so that it and its kind will continue on, and well i'm sorry but a bunch of "gays" living to gether will all die out in a generation, i thing it is more of an intelectual development of society.  

[Brwcrw3]

In the end you really can never speak the truth on the subject. There are Set things in this world that anyone who isn't part of something that is outside of the "Set Things" in this case Homosexuality then you wouldn't understand. We are born and grow up thiking Man + Woman = Good
Man/Woman + Man/Woman = diffrent thus Bad?

Untill you are either part of that group or have some type of relationship with a person n the group you can never really understand the True meaning of the subject.  

[Melancholy Demon]

actuly i am friends with quite a few, i understand it quite well just think its wrong, just like i understand murder and believe it wrong though murder is a rather extreme comparison

and wow i need like spell check or some thing cause damn  

[Buroabenteuer]

Melancholy Demon

i agree to an extent, and this is where i have to admite that i am a bite of a hypocrite, cause honestly lesbians don't bother me at all, but thats most likly not my brain talking,lol. i don't dowever believe that its part of nature, sorry if that perterbs you, cause nature makes thing so that it and its kind will continue on, and well i'm sorry but a bunch of "gays" living to gether will all die out in a generation, i thing it is more of an intelectual development of society.

In terms of Morality and Legality, nature has no place. What is natural has never been what is right or just. When nature tosses a tornado at a town and people die, is that right or wrong because its natural? no, its just the way it is. Besides, the semantics of "natural" can be argued so many different ways and has been for centuries, that it can never hold any ground.

And to speak in natural terms, invalid as they may be, Homosexuality occurs quite often in 'nature'. You can find plenty of gay squirrels and monkeys out there. In fact, A kind of chimp called Bonobos practice same-gender sexual acts as part of their social system.  

[Buroabenteuer]

What I find confusing is how the fundamentalist religious groups act out of pure spite towards the LGBTQ community.

This past monday, upwards of 500 youth including myself gathered at the California state capitol to rally and then break into groups to talk to our individual District representatives about a pair of bills on the Senate and Assembly floors (SB-777 and AB-394 respectively). The bills were designed to give already existing laws that technically were supposed to protect LGBTQ students in schools, but didnt have any teeth and have been ignored largely for seven years.

The bills would allow for students to actually be informed on how to file complaints for descrimination as well as give schools reasons to follow the law as its written. The point is to allow for students, no matter who they are, the ability to properly get an education without fear and personal threat.

Despite what I see as a completely secular and necessary matter, anti-gay groups constantly fight bills such as these based on the very principle that it might benefit a gay person in any way shape or form, no matter how based in legality or morality.

My question: why? what rationalization makes that right in their minds? that their interpretation of god's will supercedes any loyalty to human decency and national idealism?  

[Calixti]

In my experience, Buroabenteuer, it's not so much spite as it is either honest concern for our souls or the idea that our sexuality is indeed a choice, and a sinful, unhealthy choice at that. (Admittedly, it's the latter I've seen more.) They may feel that anti-discrimination measures encourage our lives of "sin" and that we're damning our souls and they aren't permitted to "save" us.

But there's always the people who talk about how we're "ruining" America and how if we're harassed or beaten, we deserve it. rolleyes

It's a little depressing to hear about such vocal anti-gay groups in other parts of the country; for a long time, I hoped it was largely either a Midwest thing, a military thing, or some combination of the two. *sigh*

(And off-topic, but do you mind if I call you Buro? Buroabenteuer is kind of hard to spell. sweatdrop )  

[Buroabenteuer]

(No problem, Buro is fine. hehe That makes me either a donkey in spanish or an office in german... or both.. a donkey-office... hehe)


I understand the concern for others' souls. I know more about the christian religion than many christians. My issue is with the method of acting upon those beliefs. I can see them not wanting sinful actions to be supported by the government, but what I can't condone is using that as justification for wanting them to suffer. Thats not even remotely christian, and thats what opposing the bills in question meant. It wasnt a matter of "homosexuality is okay" being opposed it was a matter of children who identify as LGBTQ not being allowed a safe educational evironment. They weren't out there spreading the word of christ's love and offering salvation, they were yelling obsenities and condemnations as though they had a right to judge anyone.

Where in the christian bible does it state that any person may justifiably cause someone else to suffer because they percieve them to be a sinner? In christian theology, we're all sinners, and a persons sins are between them as an individual and god.

These people don't go out and try to hurt fellow human beings in order to save them. It seems as though they act out their own personal hatred and fearful ignorance through hiding behind their religion as justification.  

[Buroabenteuer]

My arguments against the peoples own justifications aside, I now move on to arguing a step further:

The idea that being gay is a choice is invalid. Though the exact cause of homosexuality has yet to be pinned down, it has thus far been proven that it occurs due to variables in prenatal physical and hormonal development. A person's physical attraction to one sex or another is entirely dependant upon how their brain and body are wired, with no conscious choice involved whatsoever. Thus, no person chooses to be gay as they are just born that way, and the basic principles of non-descrimination and equality apply.

Right then and there, any possible reason for opposing a law that would protect LGBTQ students from descrimination would be nullified, and as far as I can see any such actions are motivated by flawed logic, ignorance, or pure spite.  

[Calixti]

These people don't go out and try to hurt fellow human beings in order to save them. It seems as though they act out their own personal hatred and fearful ignorance through hiding behind their religion as justification.

It does seem that way, and I suspect a lot do. Most of the Christians I've met seem to forget about the Law of Agape and would rather pick and choose parts of Mosaic Law and parts of the word of Paul to justify blatant bigotry. Forgetting that whether or not homosexuality is sinful is up to debate, Christ said that the core of the Law is to love your neighbor and to love God.

I've met a few Christians who honestly tell me I need help and that are honestly concerned for me, but seriously, I've committed sins much worse than just being who I am.

There are good Christians, though, ones who honestly believe in the Bible and the Word of Christ, and they give me hope for Christianity. My best friend is among them; she's Greek Orthodox, and very much pro-gay rights. heart There's a few on Gaia too; linaloki comes to mind immediately, and I'm fairly certain AciDSniper (the author of the original If You Are Against Gay Marriage, You Are A Bad Christian thread in M&R; it got 'Boxed and Elf Lord Chiewn recreated it) and ty_ping are also Christian. Unfortunately, the "good" Christians generally aren't vocal enough to outshout groups like Focus on Family and the Westboro Baptist Church.