[A] Throwbacks Permissions ideas/discussion

[Revel1984]

zephira738

It seems that the best solution, as I see it, is to establish an all or nothing thing. If person A does not want anyone using their Soq, it's less hurtful than if person A simply does not like person B and therefore determines that person B is not allowed, but person C, person D, and person E are.

If someone MUST deny throwbacks, then deny them to everyone. Don't single people out like that.

*THIS*  

[magnadearel]

All of my soq are first gen, and have never bred. So I've never encountered this before. I really don't want to cause an argument, but I'm just saying what comes to mind. Please don't be mad at me.

First, its not always possible to reach someone. Either they've left soq, gaia, etc. Which has already been stated. There's no way around that. Are these soq then going to be allowed for throwbacks or not? This should be something considered too.

Throwbacks are determined by the colorist. I think the permission is really an issue about letting parents/grandpartents/etc of your soq know they are being referenced. If my mare Zosime ever has foals, and those foals grow up then decide to have offspring; then yes I'd like to know she is being referenced. But I really have no say if she is used or not.

This is based from real life genetics, but it is a shop. Not real life. That being said, I do not believe a person should be able to ban a single person or two from using their soq as a reference. Either anyone or no one should be able to use family references.

The point on if you want your specific soq used as a reference is rather mute once they have bred the first time. The offspring will carry some part of the parents. Meaning they could very well pass along that trait to future generations. If you have a problem with this(Not with the possible future owners of said offspring) then as suggested earlier also, don't breed.

@Lynn- "If it is such a big deal to you that no one use a particular soq for throwbacks, then you shouldn't breed that soq [or only do so in a way where you control all that soq's offspring]."
I don't think its possible or a good idea to try controlling all that soq's offspring. That will just open a whole other can of ugly worms. I'm just going to leave it at that.  

[Uta]

This is coming from my opinion, and not at all as a staffer. So bear with me.

I think that this really is a mute issue. Soquili has had many changes over its lifespan as a community, but to me this issue on permission to use for throwbacks is just more red-tape and complications, more chains around people (both customs, owners, and colorists) neck.

When I first joined the shop, old breeding raffles didn't even have a throwbacks option, much less allowing a person to post links to the previous generations. You were incredibly lucky if one of the colorists actually took the time to look up the family history and grab a color scheme, or a breed variant, or edits, or whatever, and have it show up on a later generation. But it was something that the majority of the shop seemed to favor, and everyone would laugh and get excited and point out who in the family gene pool had traits pass down.

So when new colorists were put on staff and things updated, somewhere, the idea to offer throwbacks came up. And instead of colorists having to look up the past generations of a family, it was already posted. To me, the throwback option was two-fold:

1. It meant if a colorist chose or rolled for a throwback, they had the family history only a few clicks away.
2. It gave the owners of two breeding soquili the option to say "Yes" or "No" for that future generation to be open to inherit such things. Most people seem to enjoy seeing how the blood pool mixes down the line, and it's always fun to have a 'surprise!' throwback happen after so-many generations. But if a person only wants the children to look like Mom and Pa, that's when they say no.

But you have to realize, that if you have traits that you want exclusively as your own, the only way to keep those traits from moving on is to not breed them. The offspring of a foal is meant to be designed and decided solely by a colorist, so having people say "Yes" and "No" to particular instances and particular soquili is ludicrous. Because it isn't you-the-owners decision on how the foals are designed.

Blood is blood, and while this is a shop, it has always been run as 'pure luck'. Genders are rolled for and randomized, even base breeds and variants are randomized as well. The same goes with throwbacks.

So if you have a soquili that is precious, and you don't ant to see their custom wings or horns or hairstyle or whatever passed on, you have to realize that some of it will ALWAYS be passed on. The minute Precious A has offspring, those offspring will likely inherit some of Precious A's looks. And special traits. And even if Precious A's offspring didn't use Precious A as a throwback, the traits that the offspring have are (at the very least) subject to being passed down for generation after generation.

Or would they have to be banned from being used as a Throwback too?

It just seems like a mess.

Yes, there have been some extreme rare cases where the ruling was that Soquili X can't use ______ during breedings, and are in essence Gen 1's. But those are rare and the problem is bigger than just wanting to keep a soquili exclusive. If there are problems and issues that you're having, Mialee, based on gens and throwbacks, than that's something to be discussed with Sirenz, as you said you were trying to do. And hopefully that issue can be worked out, someway. I'm sorry that things happened the way that they did, but I do hope things can be taken care of without making it a whole-shop-issue.

But for the group as a whole, while some people may consider their soquili very precious and not want to see them 'used' as throwbacks . . .I think folks need to remember that the thowback listing isn't so much for you-the-owner, but for the colorists who DO want to add some variation down the road. It was just easier to have the generations listed in the form, than for them to have to try to figure out what-lineage-is-this.

Throwbacks have always happened, for a long time without any concession from any sort of owner and without a Y/N option in the breeding raffles. I was excited when I saw the 'Throwback' option available on the forms since that had been a new addition, but ultimately, throwbacks really are pretty rare and often times mild. It's very rare to see sudden ZOMG EDITS EVERYWHERE appearing just because a heavily edited soquili was added to the throwbacks of a mild-edit couple down the road. With breedings, the offspring 90% of the time are purely just a mix of Mom and Dad. If anything from grand-parents, and great-grandparents shows up it's often small and nothing to take away from a soquili's uniqueness.

 

[elvyralani]

Uta you took the words out of my mouth <3
Seriously I was typing up similar comments!

Loop hole: What if you got permissions for the parents of a soquili someone banded you from using in throwbacks?

And to the life isn't fair thing, but this isn't RL.
Still will never be fair here. Not matter the final decision there will always be people claiming it wasn't fair to them.  

[In Good Faith]

I have a simple opinion:

If you don't want your pet's traits being given to other pets, do not breed them. This solves your issue completely.  

[JetAlmeara]

Well..I have to say that ALL of my soq - even my precious 'in memorium' Soq or Pirata my beloved spider cactus mutant..will be open for throwbacks. I don't care how 'special, amazing,awesome' your soq is..once you breed it i think throwbacks are fair game..and I certainly don't want any more elitist groups popping up over 'throwback rights'  

[USS_Galactica]

Sabin Duvert

I have to agree with a lot of what JadedTiger said here.

I Understand that there have been a couple of issues in the past, but to make this an official THING, I think it will cause a lot more drama than preventing it. For most shopgoers, this isn't even a consideration. If there suddenly is the requirement to get permissions to use a soquili for throwbacks: if things are going gravy, it's just one more thing that can spark controversy. YOu ask so and so to reference their soquili for throwbacks, they say no, and then suddenly you feel slighted. Why did they say no? Do they not like me?

To be COMPLETELY honest, I'm not fond of the whole banning someone from a bloodline to begin with, even with the cases it's happened. IF your soquili would ICly disapprove with the actions of their offspring, then it makes perfect sense for the soquili to be excommunicated from the herd, but bloodlines are bloodlines. React to that ICly. IF you have an issue with someone OOCly, then don't give them any more soquili. But if you gave someone a basket from your breeding, you had no control over what traits that soquili would have to begin with - so what traits might come from THAT soquili's offspring is just as much a gamble. And as mentioned previously, throwbacks to begin with don't always happen anyway.

Like me. If my Soquili has relatives, I use all of the ones I can track down, and I have never PMed all of the owners of the Soquili before using them. That would be silly (more so for the very long and complex family lines, but I only have one or two that falls in that catagory).

To the second part. It happens with real families. Someone goes off and marries someone the rest of the family doesn't approve of and has kids, just because they stop talking to eachother, doesn't mean the kids won't have grandma's green eyes.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

Permishion for throw backs?
To be blunt.
That's stupid and does nothing but make more work for everyone especially the artist involving something that is supposed to be fun and creative.

FUN and CREATIVE.

Now let it be said I can understand and condone seeking permission for using soq as a references( for a mock breeding or a custom you know stuff of that nature.)

However if this does by some freak accident become passed.

if your soq is related to any of mine please throwback away! The more soq that look like my lovely gals and guys the better !



What Uta, Sabin, and Luna said.  

[USS_Galactica]

Steal

This may seem wrong to point out, but I can see that throwbacks actually make no sense. YOu are breeding the CURRENT two soq, thus have no real right to past genes. IF someone purchased a custom, and it is fancy, but the one you got from the breeding isn't, you shouldn't have the right to say.. hey I want to go back and take his marks since the owner didn't give me one with them before.

Throwbacks are just a cheap way for people to complain and say they want to take markings from old soq. Stick to how it was. You are breeding A and B, not their parents.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by this. Is the custom supposed to be part of the family line that someone is breeding? Or is it just a straight custom?

Either way it wouldn't be used. The only ones that are used are those that are part of the direct line to the Soquili (IE parents, grandparents, etc). The only way a new custom family member would be used, is if the custom is a recustom of an existing Soquili (IE grandma got a makeover), but I am not even sure if it would be used if that was the case. I don't know if it has ever really come up.

But either way it wouldn't do anything to existing Soquili.  

[elvyralani]

Steal, throwbacks are just nods to past generations. Like my sister has blue eyes. My parents do but one of my grandparents does. Soq I thought tried to do a bit of gene stuff and just because She-ra's new foal has spider/skulls doesn't mean I am going to get up in arms because I own a past relative that does too which is my custom. It's just the chance of dice, lowwwwww, that a foal might get blue from a grandparent or something.  

[bipolar bee]

[ Mialee ]

I notified the colorist and pmed sirenz as well as the shop mule so it will be dealt with. I am looking for a way to prevent this. there is gonna be a list of who does not have permissions anyways, I know this from my chat with sirenz. I was trying to think of way to make it easier and less dramatic on her and the staff.

I never used to have issues with throwbacks but some ppl got childish and had me banned from certain lines after a friendship fall out, to which I was never notified at all..i had freely let them use mine with no objection at this point until i found out....and the other person who entered our pair was imed and told. this is very wrong but I can do nothing about a staff decision. I felt the same, genes and traits can and will be passed. however it would seem this does not matter and if you are requested to be banned from using someone's soq as a throwback there is no choice in the matter.

so i feel bitter about them freely using mine but I am not allowed to use theirs. hence why this has come up. but other ppl I have spoken with on their feelings regarding it, feel the same way and are also experiencing ppl using them without asking. i think its needed really if they plan to allow ppl to ban others from using thowbacks. either that or abolish not being able to use throwbacks and make it so everyone can use throwbacks without limits or bans.

If there is going to be a list that people can put their Soq on to prevent throwbacks from being used, I think it should be a blanket "NO THROWBACK" thing and not just a "well I don't like this person so they can't be used" thing. Soquili (in my eyes) has come a long way, trying to disperse any cliques that have come up in the past, and doing this throwback-thing any other way is just going to cause problems between shop-goers. You should not be able to pick and choose who you want to allow access to throwbacks. It just isn't fair. ): It should be all or nothing, my opinion. I'm friends with people who are on both sides of the fence and while I understand where both are coming from, I hate to see Soquili turn into an ugly place.