Time-space

[Seanchaidh]

The_Bartner

(can't believe I haven't replied on this topic yet... or just looked over it maybe)

What I wanted to add: I like to think about all those things, but at the end I always have one result: we don't know, it's all speculation. And perhaps, we will never know. "Je pense donc je suis." doesn't work for a black hole: physic laws (might) don't work there, but we'll never be able to check things ourselve in it for example.

So, in a certain way, the only answer is (a) God? Which means in this case something behind physic laws and by that also unprovable. As a mathematician, I'm not a real fan of unprovable things, but there can be and are in this case kinda "entertaining."

The laws of physics do apply to black holes. They merely apply to the extreme. A black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field. If you condensed the earth to the size of a pea it would have the same effect.  

[Seanchaidh]

Kurzon_Dax

To the faster then light time travel problem [thats a mouthfull]. Dont know if you've already mentioned this, but the sling shot affect. If you have a fast enough space craft with a very good navigation system, you can shot for a star, in this case a really big one...take the sun for example. You fly, letting you engines [warp, antimatter, whatever] take you in, along with the help of good ol' gravity. You 'sling shot' past the speed of light around the sun , effectivly going backward in time.

Didn't they do that in one of the Star Treks?  

[UF6]

AstronomyGirl

Seanchaidh

The_Bartner

(can't believe I haven't replied on this topic yet... or just looked over it maybe)

What I wanted to add: I like to think about all those things, but at the end I always have one result: we don't know, it's all speculation. And perhaps, we will never know. "Je pense donc je suis." doesn't work for a black hole: physic laws (might) don't work there, but we'll never be able to check things ourselve in it for example.

So, in a certain way, the only answer is (a) God? Which means in this case something behind physic laws and by that also unprovable. As a mathematician, I'm not a real fan of unprovable things, but there can be and are in this case kinda "entertaining."

The laws of physics do apply to black holes. They merely apply to the extreme. A black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field. If you condensed the earth to the size of a pea it would have the same effect.

What we mean by 'the laws of physics do not apply to black holes" is that once you past the event horizon and get into black hole territory the laws of physics break down, otherwise we'd know what it's like inside a black hole. To make them and outside of them sure they follow the laws of phsyics, but to describe them and what's going on with them, the laws break down.

They don't break down as they change into different areas. It's similar if one was near the edge of the universe physics is still in effect just that its distorted.My question is by what? lots of mass centered into one area? Though your at the edge of the universe what would do that?

Also I know there is no clear edge to were the universe ends.  

[Seanchaidh]

Steven Hawkings

AstronomyGirl

Seanchaidh

The_Bartner

(can't believe I haven't replied on this topic yet... or just looked over it maybe)

What I wanted to add: I like to think about all those things, but at the end I always have one result: we don't know, it's all speculation. And perhaps, we will never know. "Je pense donc je suis." doesn't work for a black hole: physic laws (might) don't work there, but we'll never be able to check things ourselve in it for example.

So, in a certain way, the only answer is (a) God? Which means in this case something behind physic laws and by that also unprovable. As a mathematician, I'm not a real fan of unprovable things, but there can be and are in this case kinda "entertaining."

The laws of physics do apply to black holes. They merely apply to the extreme. A black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field. If you condensed the earth to the size of a pea it would have the same effect.

What we mean by 'the laws of physics do not apply to black holes" is that once you past the event horizon and get into black hole territory the laws of physics break down, otherwise we'd know what it's like inside a black hole. To make them and outside of them sure they follow the laws of phsyics, but to describe them and what's going on with them, the laws break down.

They don't break down as they change into different areas. It's similar if one was near the edge of the universe physics is still in effect just that its distorted.My question is by what? lots of mass centered into one area? Though your at the edge of the universe what would do that?

Also I know there is no clear edge to were the universe ends.

However, we do know that the universe is neither infinitely large, nor infinitely old, so there's definitely an edge somewhere.  

[LucidaOfIce]

Recommended read:

Dr. Paul Brunton's "Wisdom Of The Overself"
Steven Hawkin's "Theory Of Time Travel"  

[LucidaOfIce]

Seanchaidh

Steven Hawkings

AstronomyGirl

Seanchaidh

The_Bartner

(can't believe I haven't replied on this topic yet... or just looked over it maybe)

What I wanted to add: I like to think about all those things, but at the end I always have one result: we don't know, it's all speculation. And perhaps, we will never know. "Je pense donc je suis." doesn't work for a black hole: physic laws (might) don't work there, but we'll never be able to check things ourselve in it for example.

So, in a certain way, the only answer is (a) God? Which means in this case something behind physic laws and by that also unprovable. As a mathematician, I'm not a real fan of unprovable things, but there can be and are in this case kinda "entertaining."

The laws of physics do apply to black holes. They merely apply to the extreme. A black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field. If you condensed the earth to the size of a pea it would have the same effect.

What we mean by 'the laws of physics do not apply to black holes" is that once you past the event horizon and get into black hole territory the laws of physics break down, otherwise we'd know what it's like inside a black hole. To make them and outside of them sure they follow the laws of phsyics, but to describe them and what's going on with them, the laws break down.

They don't break down as they change into different areas. It's similar if one was near the edge of the universe physics is still in effect just that its distorted.My question is by what? lots of mass centered into one area? Though your at the edge of the universe what would do that?

Also I know there is no clear edge to were the universe ends.

However, we do know that the universe is neither infinitely large, nor infinitely old, so there's definitely an edge somewhere.

I wonder if there is more than one Universe out there? I mean, if it's possible for planets and stars to grow than obviously the Universe is with it. So, just like stars that burst after it's last stages maybe Universes somehow explode or expand. If that is the case it's possible to explain the blackhole a black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field right? There may be other Universes expanding and there for colliding with other Universes, but because of the advancement of the other universe things like Blackholes are born as the cause of no room left to grow it could explain why black holes exist?  

[Seanchaidh]

LucidaOfIce

I wonder if there is more than one Universe out there? I mean, if it's possible for planets and stars to grow than obviously the Universe is with it. So, just like stars that burst after it's last stages maybe Universes somehow explode or expand. If that is the case it's possible to explain the blackhole a black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field right? There may be other Universes expanding and there for colliding with other Universes, but because of the advancement of the other universe things like Blackholes are born as the cause of no room left to grow it could explain why black holes exist?

No, we know why black holes exist and the possibility of other universes outside the boundaries of our own has nothing to do with it. That WOULD be breaking the laws of physics.


Referring to your first point however: theoretically, it is possible that there are other universes outwith the one we are in, however there is not as yet any supporting evidence of their existence.  

[LucidaOfIce]

Seanchaidh

LucidaOfIce

I wonder if there is more than one Universe out there? I mean, if it's possible for planets and stars to grow than obviously the Universe is with it. So, just like stars that burst after it's last stages maybe Universes somehow explode or expand. If that is the case it's possible to explain the blackhole a black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field right? There may be other Universes expanding and there for colliding with other Universes, but because of the advancement of the other universe things like Blackholes are born as the cause of no room left to grow it could explain why black holes exist?

No, we know why black holes exist and the possibility of other universes outside the boundaries of our own has nothing to do with it. That WOULD be breaking the laws of physics.


Referring to your first point however: theoretically, it is possible that there are other universes outwith the one we are in, however there is not as yet any supporting evidence of their existence.

No kidding.
We barely can travel through our universe as it currently stands.
I was actually just reading something by Dr. Paul Brunton the other day and it had inspired me to come to that thaught. I'm still going to look further into it.  

[UF6]

LucidaOfIce

Seanchaidh

LucidaOfIce

I wonder if there is more than one Universe out there? I mean, if it's possible for planets and stars to grow than obviously the Universe is with it. So, just like stars that burst after it's last stages maybe Universes somehow explode or expand. If that is the case it's possible to explain the blackhole a black hole is merely a body of mass so great and yet so condensed that its gravitational force is enough to attract photons into itself from anywhere within the event horizon. It is not a gateway to another dimension, just a giant star that has collapsed in on itself until it is so small that it creates this type of gravitational field right? There may be other Universes expanding and there for colliding with other Universes, but because of the advancement of the other universe things like Blackholes are born as the cause of no room left to grow it could explain why black holes exist?

No, we know why black holes exist and the possibility of other universes outside the boundaries of our own has nothing to do with it. That WOULD be breaking the laws of physics.


Referring to your first point however: theoretically, it is possible that there are other universes outwith the one we are in, however there is not as yet any supporting evidence of their existence.

No kidding.
We barely can travel through our universe as it currently stands.
I was actually just reading something by Dr. Paul Brunton the other day and it had inspired me to come to that thaught. I'm still going to look further into it.

If I recall we don't know what happens in a black hole. And most is untested right now. Not saying it's wrong but other things we never thought o could occur.  

[Seanchaidh]

True, but there are some things that the laws of physics can rule out and other things that the current evidence upholds. We cannot send a probe into a black hole and expect to get it back out, even if it did get there, but we can follow star sequence with some of the off-planet observatories and, so far, what they have seen has confirmed the theory. We can also observe the effect of black holes upon neighbouring stellar objects with the telescopes, interferometers and observatories and the evidence they give also confirms current theory.

Right now, technically, we have very little proof that the theory of evolution is correct (although it has been proven correct in viruses and bacteria as their generation times are so short), but most, if not all, evolutionary biologists still subscribe to Darwin's theories.  

[UF6]

Seanchaidh

True, but there are some things that the laws of physics can rule out and other things that the current evidence upholds. We cannot send a probe into a black hole and expect to get it back out, even if it did get there, but we can follow star sequence with some of the off-planet observatories and, so far, what they have seen has confirmed the theory. We can also observe the effect of black holes upon neighbouring stellar objects with the telescopes, interferometers and observatories and the evidence they give also confirms current theory.

Right now, technically, we have very little proof that the theory of evolution is correct (although it has been proven correct in viruses and bacteria as their generation times are so short), but most, if not all, evolutionary biologists still subscribe to Darwin's theories.

That's why we must never get cousy with therioes.  

[Seanchaidh]

But we do have to listen to the evidence.  

[Mecill]

If we perceive things in 3 spacial dimensions, how would we perceive the edge of the universe? Also, I've heard time referred to as the 4th dimension. Would this mean that the edge of the universe is also the edge of time? That seems like it fits with the idea that the farther we look into space the farther into the past we look because the light has taken longer to reach our eyes.

Quote:

True, but there are some things that the laws of physics can rule out and other things that the current evidence upholds. We cannot send a probe into a black hole and expect to get it back out, even if it did get there,

What if we could eventually make an atomic probe that could travel faster than light (hence able to overcome the escape velocity) and send it into a black hole and back again. Also, when it returned how old would it be? xd