Global warming, anyone?

[Efstathios]

a) We're actually supposed to be going in to another ice age, they occur every 10,000 years and we're just about due.

b) Ice is a solid, as such it hold it's shape, for miles upward, it's melting now. So miles of water are coming down, so it will seem to take up more room. It will flood every coastal town in the world, that is unavoidable at this juncture. You seem to vastly underestimate the scale at which the water level will rise. We won't just be able to ship the water someplace convenient.

c)Where did you get such aweful information? It would not cripple our economy, though it would put a nice-size hole in the pocket of Bush's friends in the oil biz. Believe it or not, but using alternative fuels will actually be GOOD for our economy, not to mention our health and the environment. And that most dreaded and hated word "Sustainablility" assuming you want to live more than 16 more years, you might not, I suppose.  

[Altae]

I'm not taking a political stance on this, it causes too many headaches to argue out.

The one reason why I don't believe all the doom scenarios with Global Warming is that the "scientists" that push it disregard all evidence to the contrary. If you say anything other than what they believe, you're obviously being bribed by politicians or the *gasp* eeeeevil oil companies. Science is supposed to examine all the evidence and develop a logical conclusion from it. It seems to me like they all came up with their conclusion first, and are picking what evidence they believe suports it, or will make other people support the cause.

Also, even if it is happening, there's no way to affect global climate change effectively. Volanoes, plant life, and normal, natural processes alone provide far more "greenhouse gases" than we could produce in a decade. (The ocean alone produces 3/4ths of the Earth's carbon dioxide. If anything, the warming trend that so many people see is caused by the earth itself, and not due to man-made matters.

Sorry if this is just a reiteration of arguments posted earlier, but I'm jsut giving my two-cents worth.  

[Efstathios]

I hate it when people take stances based on rhetoric rather than evidence.  

[Der Freischuetz]

Even when the evidence can point in either direction?  

[WildCardJack]

got any cheap working alternate fuels? im sure out.  

[Templar Angelo]

I'm a scientist and I'm not really convinced either way. Remember some years ago we were warned by our governments that we're heading towards another ice age...now it's global warming. Maybe I'm going off topic for a bit but I get upset when people take any sort of data even when they are statistically insignificant and try to prove whatever they are selling. (I am in particular referring to the so-called medical studies where they study 21 people and claim that there is a -for example-15% chance of higher heart attack if you do this- while another equally invalid study claim the opposite). Sorry for the rant.  

[WildCardJack]

Templar Angelo

I'm a scientist and I'm not really convinced either way. Remember some years ago we were warned by our governments that we're heading towards another ice age...now it's global warming. Maybe I'm going off topic for a bit but I get upset when people take any sort of data even when they are statistically insignificant and try to prove whatever they are selling. (I am in particular referring to the so-called medical studies where they study 21 people and claim that there is a -for example-15% chance of higher heart attack if you do this- while another equally invalid study claim the opposite). Sorry for the rant.

thank you, your rant is appreciated.
and for anyone else out there, im still waiting on "cheap alternative fuels to stop global warming".

p.s. i will launch a personal vendetta agaisnt anyone who brings up ethanol...it just DOES NOT WORK. you hear that Nancy Pelosi? NOT A GOOD IDEA!


also ive realized i never refuted Efstathios....so i guess i probably should.

a) my point was 1) that governments (as Templar Angelo helpfully pointed out) as well as other institutions are sometimes wrong. 2) that we live on a planet with a widely fluctuating climate with many conflicting patterns. it's just plain pretentious to assume we're responsible. to quote Altae "Volanoes, plant life, and normal, natural processes alone provide far more "greenhouse gases" than we could produce in a decade. (The ocean alone produces 3/4ths of the Earth's carbon dioxide. If anything, the warming trend that so many people see is caused by the earth itself, and not due to man-made matters. "


b) ever hear of "the tip of the iceberg" thats because most of it's under water, taking up space. eh, i dunno, this may not be the best argument, i admit, but i find it interesting and you never did deny that a lot of the world IS in need of some fresh water, so all those land glaciers will release helpful supplies, regardless of how easy it is to ship. that is, IF it warms up that much in the first place, which i really dont believe it will.

c)i know, it is awe-ful, im in awe right now. using alternative fuels will cost more, will put us in debt, will slow down our industry, and probably wont even work. how can that be good? plus we have more than enough oil, if only we were allowed to drill in alaska and the gulf, but no, instead china's drilling there, why? because American's dont like the looks of an oil rig in their backyard, so we're buying our own oil from other countries, after they've used most of it up. im not saying finding new fuels would be a bad idea, just that we're not ready for the switch quite yet. give the scientists a few more years, we can afford it. the kyoto protocol pushes us in too soon, and forces us to do a rush job (never a good thing) while slowing down the economy, very possible pulling funding and support from the very programs we're trying to get going. or maybe we should spare the scientists, and just take all the money from America's working class, because although less oil would hurt "Bush's buddies" it would also hurt EVERYONE DEPENDENT ON THE OIL BASED INDUSTRY IN AMERICA. and for your information, thats a hell of a lot of people, most of them northern democrats working in an already failing industrial economy facing rising inflation, and already high unemployment. plus you never even address how unfair it is being non-binding to CHINA and INDIA (see other post). so even if we did kill our economy and sign it, it wont even DO ANYTHING, because it allows the worlds two greatest polluters to KEEP POLLUTING!
And as for personal cuts, thats just unproffesional.
http://www.globalwarming.org/article.php?uid=350  

[Gopher dude]

Alright..I'm the new guy *waves* couldn't find the welcome forum if there was one (lol)

Global warming? eh? I'll take a crack at that.

My opinion is I don't figure we can do much to stop global warming. I think we're too far in as is to stop it from melting the polar ice caps and having our inner island homes become ocean front property (lol inside family joke haha). Also I do think global warming is unnatural as..it's really fricken hot..and even now I look around my place even I can notice suttle changes that are happening ab-normaly. For instance the rivers are rising and it's well..hot (lol), but then again thats probebly happening everywhere and who am I to say it's hot eh? It's always hot, but on the bright side if global warming does into global cooling (like you guys said we hit a "little ice age") which isn't as impossible as you might think as every reaction must have an equal and opposite reaction so if everything gets really really hot really fast then it should get really really cold really really fast right? *shrugs*  

[solo-tigger1]

i say it is both a natural thing for the world to b going through a cycle of hot to cold, but also the fact that people are increasing the rate of it heating up, but it has happened before. i don't think that alternate fuels are any good beacause they are still fuels, and solor powered i say is better, or water powered(it is possible). but in the end it really doesnt matter the world is going to end in a couple billion years, with people on it or not, because the sun is going to die  

[Suicidesoldier#1]

Well you see, global warming is actually a very natural occurrence that has been going on and off for the last hundreds of thousands of years.

We've had ice ages, heat ages, giant glaciers, and other things. When the glaciers finally melt, we'll be out of the glacial period which has been occurring several hundred years and is about to end the "ice age" were are in.

It will then move to a "heat age", which won't be too bad. It's all apart of the natural process and in our attempt to stop global warming it's another attempt to control nature, which is simply stupid to do and most likely will not work.

So let it be, we're destined to fry whether it's 10,000 or 20,000 years, so, let it be, we'll adapt for the time being and we'll have to or die, but it happens alot, and has happened alot and we've been okay, so we should be able to make it through it all right, least we all die...  

[Thyplosion]

Efstathios

Well, they call it climate change now XD

Other than that it's kinda hard to debate without someone expressing a viewpoint and waiting for someone to disagree.

What is there to debate on this topic? Everything that private citizens can do about climate change saves them money and some things actually get you tax cuts or partial refunds. There's no reason not to act on the information that we have about climate change.

*grabs vegan popcorn and heads off to more entertaining threads*

Nope, Global Warming is the rise of temperature within the greenhouse (I'm not sure if this is the term, but it is composed of water vapor, CO2, methane, N2O, O3 and CFC) found at the atmosphere of the planet.

Climate Change is one of the effects of Global Warming. Of course, if it is hotter, evaporation takes place more frequently, leading to the increase of water content of the air. And you know the following scenes. I'll leave those to you.