Move to a number of tries [read the first post] for the cool down.
29%
[ 17 ]
Cool Downs don't matter, why not just get rid of them.
0%
[ 0 ]
I have another idea [Post in thread].
3%
[ 2 ]
I have no opinion on cool downs.
1%
[ 1 ]
Total Votes : 58
LydaLynn
LydaLynn
Nebula Dragon
Offline
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:22 pm
Laroawan
Changing cooldowns on breedings is a lot harder because your ability to enter a breeding affects your partners ability to enter and for some people with a small number of couples you may end up penalizing new people when their partners win. I'd rather leave cooldowns as is for breedings.
What if each person only enters one couple - the one they most want to breed. Each person gets one ticket - that's it. But their breeding partners get their tickets. Each individual can only win once every x number of breedings - but they don't block their breeding partners from entering - it's just them that can't enter.
This would keep people from missing out on breedings just because their partner has other active couples they're trying for or because their partner is on cool down. But it allows for the individual to be on cool down.
Does it mean that the odds are lower for the person who MAY have had a breeding partner who would have entered the same pair if they weren't on cool down - okay, sure. But obviously that wasn't their first choice for pair anyway, or the wouldn't be on cool down because they won with another couple.
There are a few snags in the idea. It makes keeping LL records more . . . interesting - where if both breeding partners are trying for the same couple they reach LL more quickly. But it does allow the people who have very active breeding partners with lots of couple to rotate through to have a chance without the huge wait.
The other snag would be singles mixers. But I think that's okay. If you choose to enter a mixer, you take your chances on having a cool down for your pairs. It is still a breeding and it wouldn't penalize your partners.
I personally think breeding needs something. Right now one person can end up with a theoretical 24 breedings in a year - while another person ends up LL. No, no one ends up with 24 breedings and won't with the current number of breedings. But very often the same people win again and again while others stay barren or only win once. I don't know how to fix that besides a change in the breeding cool down.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:33 pm
I'm not sure I fully understand your breeding idea.
So you're saying....
Person A: can enter one couple per breeding Person B: can enter one couple per breeding
and...
Person A enters: Soquili owned by A with Soquili owned by B Person B enters: Soquili owned by B with Soquili owned by C
Now Person B has two chances while person A has one.
What happens when person B's couple wins? Is person A no longer able to enter their couple or can they still try in raffles and potentially Person B could win again with Person A's couple?
How does the cooldown work? Is Person B just no longer able to enter for that month (or say 4 raffles) but anyone with a couple that has a Soquili owned by Person B can still enter, or not?
Yes, person B would have more chances than person A in that example.
And yes, B can no longer enter for a number of breedings [not months - but an actual number of attempts] however - A could still enter the couple that B is part of.
Right now a person can win two breedings in a month. I'm trying to find a way to limit an individual's wins while not hurting the breeding partners. There isn't a whole lot of way to do this. The best thought I can come up with is that a person gets one personal win per x number of breeding openings, but they don't limit their partners from also getting wins.
As it is, if you want to breed with someone who already has two couples, you have to wait. If they already have five couples - you really have to wait. If the couples they are working on are LL . . . it gets insane.
Not everyone has dozens of breeding options to shuffle through and find pairs that have partners who can enter.
There is no way to make things perfectly fair. It doesn't exist. Either people with lots of couples get better odds or people with few get nearly no chances.
I'd personally rather err on the side of people with few at least having a shot at a breeding without having to wait for their breeding partner to get around to their breeding.
LydaLynn
LydaLynn
Nebula Dragon
Offline
Laroawan
Dangerous Hunter
Offline
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:48 pm
I think your idea solves the issue of people with few Soquili/couples having to wait for their partners to have free breeding openings but it may actually increase the odds of some people getting many more breedings than others. For example, if you have say.... 50 Soquili and 25 of them have planned breedings. You could theoretically now be getting 25 chances to win in just 1 raffle and could potentially be winning breedings every month if not multiple every month.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:05 pm
Yes and no, if each person can only enter one couple - you'd have to have 25 different people you are breeding with. Add to that the fact that each time someone wins, they're also getting removed for a cool down.
The problem is that there isn't a good way to fix breedings. Right now there is virtually no actual person who ever enters a cool down and even if they do, they rarely miss more than one breeding chance during the cool down. But making a longer cool down penalizes their partners more than it hurts them - after all, they just got baskets, the partners waiting for them didn't.
I can't find a fix that doesn't hurt someone somewhere. If you still say 'they can't get more than two baskets in a month from breedings their couples are in' that helps - but then you deal with people complaining that now they aren't benefiting from their own breedings.
Personally, I'd say no more than two breeding baskets per month period - that's from their own baskets and those gifted - just to spread things around a bit. But then there's the complaint that people can't give a basket to a friend like they had planned.
I really wish there were more people reaching outside of the people they know for extra baskets. People who are known are usually the ones who already have large herds and are known because they're being RPed with. But that's individual choice - and I don't want to stop people from being able to choose where their baskets go.
LydaLynn
LydaLynn
Nebula Dragon
Offline
That Artemis Crew
Devoted Heckler
Offline
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:24 pm
I honestly don't think breedings are broken at all. The only complaint I have is the typical 'moar breedings, moar LL!!!'. I think that the system they have for breedings works pretty well right now, it's just the demand for them is not meeting the supply which is nothing new and not likely fixable.
I do agree however, on custom cooldowns. There might as well not even be one with how effective it is at present. I won a custom in March and another in August...and without going to look it up, I'm almost positive I only missed ONE custom thread in that time. The win from August was twins, so I had to wait 'til January to enter again. Again, I only missed one custom raffle during my four month cooldown.
I think that it is a good idea to change it to the amount of raffles missed rather than a set time cooldown because as many have said before me, customs are so rare now it isn't uncommon for the whole cooldown to be over before another custom raffle opens.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:06 pm
I'm not really sure I see anything wrong with the breeding cool downs, myself. Two breedings a month, per person, sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was going to make a statement about how well this works, but... I lost my train of thought emo Watch, it'll come back later... xd;;
As for customs - I do agree about the cool-down being changed from two months to # slot openings. 5 seems rather reasonable to me as a number. As pointed out, two months between is no longer really... Working. Mindsend had customs in December, and then the next ones were Neza's in March. That's a three-month gap, so people who won in December could right away try again in March for more customs.
I'm not sure how the events could be handled. Maybe keep the LARGE event limits to one from each category if you can do it(1 Freebie, 1 paid raffle, 1 auction), while much smaller events would be, say... Every other mini-event*, you have to sit it out, excluding the CYO plushes. So a Valentine mini-event and a St. Patty mini-event happen - If you win in the Valentine mini-event, you need to sit out the St. Patty mini-event. Does that sound a bit reasonable?
* - Mini-event being defined as something like a free raffle and a shop-run contest sharing the same theme, like the B'ak'tun mini-event. At least, that's what I've observed.
....... So.. my cat erased this just when I got to the end. Please forgive me if I miss anything as I'm trying to recall what I just typed. (also going to shorten things.)
1. Cool-downs are fine. Leave it as is.
2. Love the idea of Super-rare slots being limited to one every 6 - 12 months. This would keep the same people who have tons of money from winning them almost every time.
3. Don't change the breeding cooldown. This would over complicate things. The list in the MCCL makes it easy to keep track of when someone can breed next. Having to keep track of 'slots' would make the staff's job more difficult and make it harder for breeding partners to figure out when they can enter next.
4. Yes there aren't a lot of slots happening right now, but I'd say leave the custom cool-down as is. If it were to be moved to slots, maybe do two and not 5. We're lucky to get even 1 custom to enter for a month. So two slots would basically be the equivalent of those two months. However, How would this effect SC? Currently the staff credits work on the same cool-down as the customs. If not handled correctly I could see this being abused. :/
Anyway hope I covered everything. Just my personal opinion and I'll be interested to see what other suggestions are made.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:32 pm
LydaLynn
For those suggesting the tickets per try thing - I'm pretty sure it was done for an event - WoW if I remember correctly. And it was a HUGE nightmare for the staff.
The staff wouldn't have to do anything, I would imagine more like your entry would look more like this:
How many Tickets are you claiming: 3 Link to Events: Free Raffle: Paid Raffle: Storytelling Contest:
Then all the colorists would need to do is check the links for blatant cheating when they win.
Quote:
Plus - part of the problem is that not everyone can participate in the events. Life happens and might mean your computer was crashed for most of the month. You might be at work during all the prime event times. There are ones that are limited entry or only an hour of signup with almost no notice. Not to mention not everyone can do art or feels confident enough in their writing. Heck - the only reason I managed to get anything from the Summer event was because I had someone who very kindly proxied for me as I didn't have time to spend at the computer during almost all of the event.
I'd rather see a little more limiting on number of event pets any one person can get than penalizing those who are not able to be on/do as much as others.
Heck, even the art contest - there was a month for creating art - I barely managed to put together what was only part of my thoughts/plans that was just enough to enter once. I'm sorry, but limiting things to those who have more time is like limiting to those who have more gold and those who have more skill/talent, it just doesn't balance in the end.
We all have lives. We have school, or work, or kids, or health problems... and yeah, sometimes Gaia and Soquili SHOULD come second to that. But that's that, and that's okay.
That's not "penalizing" people who can't be on as much. The colorists busts their asses and yes, I think people who make the time kind concentrated effort deserve a better shot at SOME Soquili. There are plenty of events where all you have to do is step into the thread and say "Count me in" - and that's great.
But yes - people who make the time to make long and creative entries into contests and stuff (in my opinion) DO deserve an edge in certain events.
I didn't enter the art contest because I'm not good at art. I'm not holding that against the shop for not catering to me. The art contest is MEANT to reward those who have some artistic talent. I don't.
Yeah, some people probably can't enter every event during a Large shop event, and that's fine... that's how the cookies crumbles. But in most of the events a lion's share of the contests/events are at least several days long. I think someone who entered, say, 12 of the 18 available events and didn't win ANY Soquili should get an edge over someone who only entered 1 or 2. You're not excluding people who don't have time/having computer problems/at a bad time...you're just giving a small edge to those who put a LOT of effort.
I've kicked around in my head about how to have a good system where you limit people to one breeding a month (which I really don't think is a bad thing, and most people would be thrilled to get any breeding a month) that doesn't take away the difficulties, like suddenly having to drop a couple you've been trying with for like a year, or make it unfair to people you're trying with, and here's the idea I came up with:
- you can still enter two couples into each breeding raffle provided you have not already won a breeding that month. - IF someone gets drawn with their other couple in the same raffle, then their PARTNER gets their other couple chosen. ((IE: Person A has two couples, one with Person B and one with Person C. They get rolled first with their couple with B. That one wins. they then get rolled again for their pair with person C. Instead of doing that couple, Person C gets their 2nd couple bred. - If person C doesn't have a second couple in the raffle (or if that couple is also elimated if that other partner won), the colorist can either pick one of their other couples from the MCCL (or maybe they have an "alternate" pre-chosen couple listed in their form to save time). - If Person C has NO other couples, they can nominate someone else's couple. IE, person C gets to CC someone else from the raffle - maybe a friend.
- THE DOWNSIDES (I can think of): - it's complicated. - a person might end up getting a breeding that they weren't AS enthused about. - "When it rains it pours" - you may not have had a breeding in two years, and suddenly miss the opportunity to get two in a month. (ie, there's someone that was LL with both of her couples and managed to win two slots in Riri's slots - that's awesome, when it rains it pours and she's been waiting forever for any breeding.) - this might be more complicated for the colorist, not being able to get started immediately if they're waiting on the customer to let them know the one they want chosen if they were picked a 2nd time. Solution: IF you have a new line of the forms of "alternate couple" - this could save the time - each owner can pick an alternate couple if the colorist has to pick a couple other than what that owner has entered into the raffle.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:57 pm
I like your idea Sabin. The one place I see it potentially breaking down is for people who only have 2-3 couples. If your partners get rolled before you you might have no other couples to use as an alternate and essentially lose your winning spot.
Laroawan
Dangerous Hunter
Offline
Sabin Duvert
Winter Trash
Offline
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:56 pm
Laro - yeah, that's a weakness. The only thing I could think that would come would be that person then could CC a different winner. Sucks, but in order for that to happen it means that their partner would have have to have won AND their other partner would have had to have won, and they had no other couples or self couples, so hopefully that would be a rare instance.
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:20 pm
Kamiki
But yes - people who make the time to make long and creative entries into contests and stuff (in my opinion) DO deserve an edge in certain events.
Yes, and they get an edge, in the event they entered. Ultimately you're reducing the chance of someone who couldn't do as much - when their chances were already reduced because they didn't enter all the contests. So those who entered a 12 times, had twelve chances. But now the final raffle goes out and they get twelve more chances to the two chances that someone who only had two other chances gets.
I understand the reasoning, reward those who try harder. But they are rewarded with having had more opportunities already.
Personally - I hate the 'all or nothing' chances some of these events have. That's part of why I developed the way I do basket contests. But thems the breaks. Not everyone is okay with a mix of effort/skill and luck. So there are a lot of 'you won because you tailored your entry better or had more skill or time'. And that's okay.
I started this thread to look at the imbalance in some of these things and to work towards addressing it.
Think about it - someone like [.Silvr-Moon.] has only gotten ONE soquili in four years - since 2008. I won my first familiar in 2008 and didn't win my first Soquili until 2010 - but since then I've gotten 13. And I by no means have gotten all that many compared to some people. There are people like Syaoran-Puu [picked because she has the certs easy to see] who got 29 since 2010, maybe more, I didn't count ones that I couldn't see the year on the cert.
There is nothing wrong with how many Sya got - there is nothing wrong with how many I got - there is nothing wrong with how many Silvr got. But I know for people like Silvr, who are here and at least active enough to pop into the feedback thread, it has to be frustrating seeing other people have huge herds while still lingering at only one soquili.
I know when I had just my familiar - I only stopped by for big events, because I was overwhelmed by the thread and could never figure out flaffles and such for this shop with it all in the guild [different from most other B/Cs I had known]. But it was very frustrating trying so hard in the WoW event [and other previous events] and seeing people who already had tons of soquili getting two or three soquili from the event while I struggled and tried and didn't manage to get any. I did finally, towards the end, end up getting rolled for a consolation prize usdia. I remember thinking I had to jump on it because it might be the only opportunity I would have. I know I even got an email from someone suggesting I pass on him because he was only an Usdia and I was one of only 24 people still in the running for a pure-walker. But just having a soquili, a sure thing, meant so very much to me. The rarity of the purewalker was nothing, because just having any soquili was so very rare to me.
I have an okay herd now. I've been lucky. I am thrilled with what I have. I will always want more. But I have no problems looking at my luck and understanding the people who haven't had that and are still hoping just to bring their herd up to three or four. I don't mind waiting a little longer from getting a soquili until the next opportunity to get a soquili so that someone else also has a chance.
I already have co-owned a couple of mine, even with as few as I have, to try and give newbies a chance and having a soquili, an opportunity to feel like part of the shop and get into the rhythm of things here, of being able to RP. One of those didn't work out at all, another worked out amazingly well and I adore my co-owner. But I didn't know going in how either was going to turn out, because I didn't know the people I shared with. The opportunities for those who have been part of the shop forever seem endless. And the opportunities for those who are still new and trying seem daunting and overwhelming. I've moved past the daunting and overwhelming. I would love to see the opportunities spread around a bit so that the daunting and overwhelming is reduced, just a little bit, for those who still are sitting there where no one is taking a chance on them with extra baskets or staff credits or proxying in events. For those who only have one soquili to show for having been in the shop for five years.
But look at the people who DO have huge herds. They usually some combination of the following traits:
- they are CONSTANTLY in the Soq thread and/or the Soq thread takes up most or a significant amount of their online time
- they have been part of the Soquili for years and have developed a huge network of friends and RP partners
- they put tons of effort and creativity in their contest/event entries
- they have tons of gold to throw at auctions/raffles
Basically, you seem to be implying that people who don't put as much effort and energy into Soquili should have equal chance at people who put a LOT of effort and energy into Soquili and I have to respectfully disagree.
I know the shop can be daunting - but those newbies who jump in and really muscle past the intimidation and put a lot of effort into learning to rules and participating in events and making friends usually get heavily rewarded for it. There are people who are actively LOOKING for newbies who are starting to get interested in the shop to co-own and get their feet wet. To be honest...getting a co-own in Soquili is easier now than its EVER BEEN. I don't see many newbies having to hang around and chat more than a couple of times before someone offers to co-own. It may take longer before they get their OWN Soquili, or win an event, but they can cut their teeth and get their feet wet pretty easily. (And if there are any newbies out there who are reading this and think I'm wrong and really want a chance - let me know. I'll be happy to help).
Not everyone WANTS to only be dedicated to one shop. And that's okay - you can't be a jack of all trades AND a master of all to boot. If you're not giving Soquili 100% of your Gaia-dedication there's nothing wrong with that. But at the same time you're going to have to just accept the fact that you're not going to be getting as many Soquili as the people who DO dedicate all/nearly all of their Gaia time to Soquili.
I have no problem with certain parameters in place. I love the LL breeding slots, I agree there should be LL customs and even a longer custom cooldown.
But, overall, I think the desire to spread the love shouldn't come at the expense at punishing those who do choose to make Soquili a significant part of their online world. While most people with big herds, myself included, don't go after pets unless they really like them- people shouldn't be frustrated in events when people who are very dedicated and put a lot of effort and time into their herds get rewarded for it.
