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So many Good & Bad things in the world, left unexplained. Was it caused by humans, is there really a seprate body up there....or down there?

If there is a god why did 9/11 happen cause so much distress and trouble, God is supposed to keep the world sane, make sure that there is as little hate but so far there has only been trouble.

Why do we pray, it almost never happens to come true. If It did happen I would have been dead long ago when I prayed every day to god that something will kill me.

What or Where is god?

I'm not sure if this is actually a matter for philosophy so much as science, seeing as this is ultimately not about how we view things, but the actual nature of the world and not just how it should be viewed. Unless you wanted to include in the discussion debate uponmetaphysics and epistomology. ninja That said, I myself find that based on all the current information we have, deities and any/all forms of "mysticism" are not only non-existent, but not even possible to exist. The thing you're bringing up is known as the "Problem of Evil." That particular argument is a good one, but is pretty specific to the typical Christian god. (by the way, that wiki article in the first part about the "logical problem of evil" has one minor flaw in how they stated it. They forgot to include that the specific type of god they're talking about is also assumed/by definition omniscient, so has to know that evil things exist. They included the omniscience in the later arguments though where it was relevant. 3nodding Also not very well addressed in the article where the "free will defense" is brought up is bad things happening to good people that are not the result of humans making immoral choices -- like lightning striking and destroying property and lives. Also, another problem not addressed in attempted defenses against the problem of evil in the Christian definition of god: some claim that the god of Christianity can be omnipotent, yet limited by logical rules. This does not make sense because 1)god is supposed to be the most powerful thing out there, above all else in Christianity, even if you say he's limited by logic. 2) To say he is limited by logic means logic is more powerful then a god that is by definition the most powerful thing, which is illogical in itself. Thus a god that is by definition the greatest power/force/thing in existence still limited by logic renders themself out of existence for having a very existence which by definition goes against logic. Add to that that in Christianity god also is supposed to have existed before everything and anything else and made all the subsequent rules essentially. This means god should have existed before logic and created the rules of logic thereafter. So he was not supposed to have been originally limited by logic and only became limited by it after he created it I suppose -- but if this is the case why would he create logical laws to limit him which would make it logically impossible for a world free of all evil to coexist and cooperate with free will? If he did that, then you again must claim one of the original premises of god as being "omnipotent" ((at least at before the creation of logic)), "omniscient", and "omnibonevolent", and thus the basic definition of god upon which Christianity in all it's many branches rests, is not true. You may also only keep those three premises by saying he did not exist before logical rules to set them, the logical rules, up and thus was not the first thing to exist from which all other things were created from/by his will. If he didn't exist first and create everything else, he's not the ultimate creator, something existed first and had more power first, kind of like the guy who's being asserted as the ultimate one in charge has been revealed to have another boss above him. And if he's got a boss above him which is pre-existing rules of logic, then that still just brings up the previous problem I mentioned of he can't exist as lower than and limited by logic while still maintaining the Christian definition of him as being the highest existing power. So you see, you have to either abandon the "free will, god limited by logic" argument that attempted to defend the Christian god, or, you have to forfeit no less than one fundamental aspect of the definition of god which Christianity is founded upon.)

By the way, those last two things I brought up against the "free will defense" -- I was reasoning this out myself. Does anybody know who may have said this argument first and/or if the argument has a name what it is? Having a name to put and/or explanation I could post a link to once I know where it comes from/what it officially is would save me time typing and space in posts for later. ninja

In what way do you mean "No one can say to another person if there is a god or not. I don't believe that's right"? Do you mean to say you are part of the "it's impossible to prove either way!" camp? Because just because this is a large matter in life, I think not only is that far from reason not to tell somebody one way or the other, I think it's reason all the more to. Refusing to give somebody the reasons you believe what you do on such a big issue I think is like lying to them, you're withholding information and then expecting them to both "respect your opinion" -- which they have no idea where you're getting it from, you could be pulling it out of a** essentially and nothing more -- and try to make a decision for themself with a minimum amount of information on the arguments for and against all the different options. It's like somebody who has thoroughly examined all the different brands of orange soda out there or health content, how cleanly the factories making it are, taste, and comparative cost to actual value so that they can find what they really think is the best brand to buy then telling somebody who asked them at the grocery store which brand of orange soda they thought was the best deal that "I can't tell you that. You have to decide for yourself." This person has little information to go on, and if EVERYBODY who has information which could help them choose, like maybe the person who keeps the sanitation records for a factory, won't tell them either, then how are they supposed to make a good decision for themself? Making decisions based on ignorance they quite likely will not make the same choice they freely would if they were well informed.

i look at it this way: in the game of life, God is our physics-engine. he governs a set of rules (the laws of physics, time, etc...) within which any event may occur, sorta like the matrix, except that these rules CANNOT be broken, not just "may not", but can not.

i believe in intelligent design: its a nice compromise between creationism and darwinism: also, i do not believe (strongly) in an afterlife:

i admit it would be pretty dank to live in perfect peace for all of time, but this simply cannot be: the mechanism of thought, the brain, neurons, and other supporting cells, would not exist because they would eventually rot away in your body: if we ever did experience life after death, it would be an enitirely non-human experience, something that none of us could ever hope to even imagine.

sorry to say, but i believe we all just wink out of existance: this means you must make the most of your precious time on this earth, cuz its all you got.

Yes, I believe in the typical Christain God. And yes, I believe that he created the devil. He created the Angel of Light, Lucifer, and when he did he knew that Lucifer would turn against him. No, he doesn't WANT bad things to happen, but he does let them. He lets them happen to us, because we don't ask for him help. Think of him like the police. If you get robbed, but don't call the police, well, you've been robbed, but if you call the police they'll go after the thief and (hopefully) bring your stuff back to you. I belive that, if the Devil decided to make a prayer (and as he wants to replace God and is his sworn enemy, I find it doubtful that he would) then God would answer it. He would mostly likely say "no," but he would answer it. And I didn't say he didn't answer requests, he just doesn't always answer them in the way we want him to. He operates on a moral standard, which he even wrote out for us in the Ten Commandments, and if you ask him to do something that violates the laws he set up, then he'll say no. Again, I turn to the parable/analogy of the policemen. If you ask a policeman to help you catch a thief, he will, but if you ask him to do something like kill someone so you can steal his wife, he'll say no.