About suicide.

[Nimeton Ei Kukaan]

I don't think suicide is wrong.

If I was to tell you I was going to kill myself, I'd immediately be attacked by groups of people telling me I shouldn't do it, God will help me if I just live and believe, I'm selfish because I'm going to leave all those who love me just to get away from my pain etc.

Suicide is seen as a selfish and wrong act, even if the person planning to do it is homeless, jobless, poor and has no one who cares about them.

Let's take a look at this thing called 'selfishness'.

We are all selfish creatures, no matter how much we try to be unselfish, it's still selfishness. Think about it. Doesn't it feel good to help others, doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Don't you think it's a benefit in itself to feel good after someone thanks you? It makes you selfish, but don't worry, it's not a negative thing to be selfish. It's a natural instinct to stay alive. In the end, whatever you do, you do it for you own good, either directly or indirectly.

Following this logic there is nothing wrong in planning to kill yourself, because you have the right to end your suffering. Everyone trying to stop you are just as selfish as you are because they want to avoid the pain of losing you, even at the expense of your well-being.

A person planning a suicide is often attacked with these kinds of arguments:

"It's against God's will!"

This argument might work if the suicidal person is a Christian, but if they're not, why should they listen to some Christian's opinion?

"How dare you cause such pain to your family and friends!"

How dare they cause you such pain by forcing you to stay living a miserable life? And which one do you live for? Yourself or others?

"There is always another way!"

Well, what is it then? Ideas are welcome. If they care so much, then why don't they help? Besides, suicide is an easy and fool-proof way to end all suffering. Does that make it a bad way?

"You coward! Giving up so easily!"

No. It's just smart to take the route that hurts the less. If you can't win the battle, in this case to stop the suffering, what point is there to continue?
Is giving up against overwhelming odds somehow bad?

And attacking a depressed person with these kinds of argument won't help them at all. Making them feel guilty will make them feel worse, driving them further into depression.

Please feel free to discuss what you think.  

[starblazer66]

There is no justification for suicide. There's no point in quitting life because something hurt you or because things are rough. When you think about it, a lot of the crap that happens in life isn't worth the cost of your life (ex- having no friends, pressure from school, living at home is hell).

Nobody said life was easy. We're bound to have some sort of hardship at some point. We just gotta deal with it.  

[Nimeton Ei Kukaan]

Well, you could always go and actually help those in need, so they wouldn't come to the cocnlusion that suicide is their only chance left.
If you just attack them with aggressive messages like that, they're even more likely to commit suicide.

Could you possibly state arguments to back up your opinion?

So why aren't people allowed to decide when they want to die?
Not even the old granny left alone for years in the old-age home, longing for her children and grandchildren to come see her? Not even when they think they're just burden to everyone?

Tell me, is it justified to make other people continue the suffering?
How can you say "the crap that happens in life" you were talking about, even if it feels nothing to you, can't cause ultimate pain to someone else?  

[KrazyKrayla]

I don't immediately wonder if it's "wrong" or a person's right when I think about this subject. What I think of is the ageless stories of souls and ghosts haunting the grave sites where they were buried, yearning to be with their bodies again... I know they're just stories, but they're so timeless. Something that ancient always strikes me. If they're so desperate to be with their bodies again then that tells me there's something special about them, something our "souls" (or whatever you want to call them) yearn for when separated from them.

Sure, I have no fact or proof for my thoughts but there's my two pennies.

So wrong or right, selfish or not, it seems to people who believe in those ghost stories (like me whee ) feel that bodies make souls happy and throwing them away leaves an eternal scar.  

[starblazer66]

My comments were pertaining to depression related suicide. I don't understand how in the hell you could have picked up euthanasia from that.

I said what I said about the things in life because that's exactly what it is crap. Thinking about the grand scheme of things allows me to call it how I see it. It's my right, is it not?

Oh well. I'm not going to bother saying much else except for this- I know pain better than you think but I'll be damned if I let it kill me.  

[Nimeton Ei Kukaan]

I too have suffered a lot of pain, but I also still have things to cling to and therefore I have no reason to die. My life is still worth living, but not everyone's is.

I understand your point of view why YOU shouldn't commit suicide, but this thread wasn't about trying to make people commit suicides, but make them understand that those poeple who do aren't murderers or criminals at all.

They're people who needed help, but didn't get it soon enough or got more depressed because people just make them feel guilty and worthless for wanting to die. Some of them gave survived when they tried to take their own life and got treated like they killed another person. This will drive them to try again and again and again until they succeed.

You still haven't given me actual arguments to back up your opinion.
Without those arguments, I'm not going to be able to take you seriously.

Why is life necessarily so hard that people can't take it? And why is it so bad to give up when you just don't have the chance to make it?
Because you might get better if you just try? There is always also the chance everything gets worse.  

[Everet]

Suicide? An escape from reality by a number of people round the world every year. Usually the cause is depression caused by mental stabilities, trauma, cults, harsh-up bringing and even fad. What you think of suicide is anything, anything at all, an escape from the suffering you suffer, a selfish escape, a sin against God almighty or whoever or whatever you believe in. But you have to get rid of all human perspective, thought and the human element to get to the basic. What is suicide? The act of killing oneself (oneself being an organism with intelligence to an extent of making choices) for a reason. I personally think of it every minute, on the hour every hour of every day. But yet I'm still alive, why is that? Obviously the reason another person would think is "O he's got something to live for" or "something is making him stay put in this world". What if there was just a possibility that that person's happiness was illusion, fake and they knew it. They weren't happy, but still denied suicide? You would then think "O they're following God's whim" or "They're taught not to do that." Get rid of the teachings also, and still that person refuses to die, then WHY? WHY live? Maybe another though "they're mentally insane", but even then what if it wasnt a possibilty? What would you think then?

The person I talk about aint me if you were thinking that. That was partially me until "the mentally insane" part. All I'm trying to get out is that no matter the circumstance people dont just commit suicide even if all the odds are against them. And yes I know my source is a little...unbelievable but to an extent you have to consider the question. What if there was a person like that in this world? I persnally dont think that is possible, because of the odds I mean its unlikely especially when you're talking about chance. Billions of chances to 1. But if that person existed, what would you think then?

Thats what I think everyday, even the thought of commiting suicide myself, but for me, no matter how sad I get, its as if I just keep Floating on. Maybe a chance later in life. Maybe one day all of the sadness will go away, I'll be happy again, I'll be in the place I do belong. But then the fact hits me, I've had chances and chances upon chances to fit in everywhere I've been. Even now I'm having a tough time trying to find the perfect place. Alone was always where I was, not even wanting to try, there was no hope for me but then music came. Music came and saved me. Thats the reason why I live now, music saved my life. There is no other time in my life that I dont feel either bored with life or unhappy unless its playing, listening, or even learning music.

That's my reason, everyone has one reason to be alive and then when that reason is gone, people go into depression. They strive to either get the feeling back, or try to hang on until life throws them another bone. Some eople are impatient and can't stand the sorrow, and that is their choice and no one should be the judge until they get the front row seat of the person in question's life. Maybe its just love, doing something, a friend, a possession, wealth, status, sickness, or even oppression that does it but whatever the case be, everyone has the choice, and its not justifiable until a true perspective of the said person's life is understood to the d.  

[RizaMustang24]

Well, this is obviously a deep topic but let me enter it... suicide... it has in fact crossed my mind a numerous amount of times.. but why do I never do it? Maybe it's a hormone in your body, but as soon as you get to that spot where you are gonna take your life something pulls you back... you can never come back, sure life is a living hell but what is beyond death? It doesn't matter what religion you are, who you are inside, do not lie to me and tell me the thought of afterlife has never occured to you. When you die, is that it? Do you go to heaven or hell? Do you wander the earth as a damntion for the rest of eternity? I am a Christian, but what if God isn't the almighty? Then what? You go to hell? Or what? That is what has kept me from suicide... but when people tell you that stuff don't throw it in their face dammit! That person was trusting enough to crawl out of their hole to tell you and you throw that trust at them... you should never yell at a suicidal person, it might even make them homicidal instead. What you need to do is talk to them about it calmly... suicide is never justified, but is living either? It is true, everyone has something to live for, but when that thing is gone? It is true damnation to make someone live their life when they are dead inside, there is no meaning, you are trying to save an already dead person...
I have never actually opened myself up on my thoughts of suicide to anyone, and until I find someone who won't criticize me for it I don't think I ever will. Don't hate suicidal people and emo's... once you go into their shoes you will feel horrible... maybe they see more to life than you do? Maybe their minds are complex and they see things that if you saw them in that perspective you'd want to go suicide too?
I dunno, maybe I'm sounding like an idiot... so I'll stop now, but that's part of my opinion (if it makes any sense at all)  

[Sunatic]

I believe in rebirth, that's part of why suicide isn't wrong to me. If one specific life is too much to bear, it's just smart to stop fighting against the odds and start again, probably in a better place, with better chances for a good life.

Making a suicide-planning person feel guilty by attacking them with illogical arguments is just stupid. It most probably won't help one bit - if anything, it'll just make the depressed person die with a heavy mind and heart instead of peacefully coming to terms with the fact that life sucks, and leaving with no regrets.  

[RizaMustang24]

Sunatic

I believe in rebirth, that's part of why suicide isn't wrong to me. If one specific life is too much to bear, it's just smart to stop fighting against the odds and start again, probably in a better place, with better chances for a good life.

Making a suicide-planning person feel guilty by attacking them with illogical arguments is just stupid. It most probably won't help one bit - if anything, it'll just make the depressed person die with a heavy mind and heart instead of peacefully coming to terms with the fact that life sucks, and leaving with no regrets.

Listen to her the next time someone tells you they want to die, lol, she's got a good point  

[Nimeton Ei Kukaan]

starblazer66

My comments were pertaining to depression related suicide. I don't understand how in the hell you could have picked up euthanasia from that.

I said what I said about the things in life because that's exactly what it is crap. Thinking about the grand scheme of things allows me to call it how I see it. It's my right, is it not?

Oh well. I'm not going to bother saying much else except for this- I know pain better than you think but I'll be damned if I let it kill me.

I still can't understand this whole "suicide is wrong!!!" concept. If it's so wrong, why don't you do something to stop it from happening? Like supporting those who have tried to commit suicide? And what makes euthanasia of an old woman or man so much more just than that of a young person's attempt to end the suffering? Your logic has holes in it.

Like I said before, you have been stating reasons for why you shouldn't commit suicide, but why should you have any say in other people's decisions of the same subject?

My brother just tried to commit suicide, I can't really blame him. He's suffered a lot, but if I can help him to continue his life and overcome his pain, of course I'll do all I can to stop him from ending his life. I'll try to give him something to live for. Not because it's wrong to commit suicide, but because I'll miss my brother and I'll feel bad if I lose him. It's because of my own well-being that I want to help him.

My mother seems to be on the verge of committing suicide, I'm going to visit her today and try and make her feel better. This too is for me and myself only. I can't imagine life without her just yet. She's too young to die and I'm too young to be without a mother who can help me with just about anything. She's one of the most important people in my life.

Blaming them and making them feel guilty is never the answer. They need support, attention, help and love of their closest ones. I'll be there for them, for their happiness and mine.

Sunatic

I believe in rebirth, that's part of why suicide isn't wrong to me. If one specific life is too much to bear, it's just smart to stop fighting against the odds and start again, probably in a better place, with better chances for a good life.

Making a suicide-planning person feel guilty by attacking them with illogical arguments is just stupid. It most probably won't help one bit - if anything, it'll just make the depressed person die with a heavy mind and heart instead of peacefully coming to terms with the fact that life sucks, and leaving with no regrets.

Same here.  

[`Breathless]

Everyone's points are amazing (except just about two)
I highely agree with attacking the depressed person because they want suicide. It truely is a selfish thing, but we are all selfish and saying "It's gods will for you to live" God won't care about one person coming to visit him sooner. I don't understand that concept of that whole idea. To stop somone from suicide you have to think of why? You arguments are very well thought out and I thank you for bringing up this issue  

[Melancholosophy]

Hi everyone biggrin
I joined this guild a little while ago, but this is my very first post inhere, due to my lack of time (and partly memory...).
But when it comes to the subject of 'suicide' I will have to agree with whoever believes in the possible justification of this, to some, very selfish act of liberation from this terrible world we created... sad
I believe that we all somehow, sometime feel like leaving this world for good, thus erasing all the bad memories and broken pieces of your heart and mind and soul, feeling like your body will never heal and your soul is forever doomed to be melancholically in a sad mood...
Ah, well...maybe it isnt always that bad when you get inside peoples head, but...and neither is my head a black desert of tears and dispair, but a naive and joyfully unaware garden of elusive flowers, awaiting to be plucked by my hopeful hands...
But no matter how grim your future looks (yes, I took that from the oneliner of a movie) the eternal hope of happiness is still persistent through the falling teardrops of your own damnation, wishfully planning to seduce you in its own way, leading you towards a bottomless pit of growing hopes and fears, finally to be released upon the impact of a hard, cold floor of pityless tiles...but thats just the opinion of a pessimistic, melancholic whiner. Enjoy smile  

[Arid Tundra]

I get angry at people who commit suicide. They're just throwing their life away, taking the easy way out. I'd consider myself weak and ignorant if I committed suicide, and I think that some people who commit suicide don't really know how good their life is  

[Nimeton Ei Kukaan]

Arid Tundra

I get angry at people who commit suicide. They're just throwing their life away, taking the easy way out. I'd consider myself weak and ignorant if I committed suicide

*sigh* Could you people read everything said thoroughly before you come and tell me once again how suicide is the ultimate evil you can ever do? And try and think when about everything said and discussed while you're at it, you might actually understand our point and be able to raise some arguments to back your whining up.

I don't understand how you can get angry at people who are giving the ultimate signal that they need help? And why aren't you allowed to throw your life away when it's not worth living?
If you are so eager to condemn all suicidal people to hell, announce they're weak and ignorant or whatever else crossed your limited human mind, then do something to make the lives of other people worth living and help them and support them, so they wouldn't have to give up!

I hate people who are all talk but never actually do anything to solve the problem. If it bothers you, then you either will have to shut up, or if you absolutely must complain, help solve the problem! It saves time, shows you actually care a s**t and makes you look good in the eyes of all those people who see you caring for suicidal people.

Arid Tundra

I think that some people who commit suicide don't really know how good their life is

And I'd say, you don't know how bad some people's lives are and can be.
You didn't even offer any kind of explanation as from where you have gotten such an idea that nobody can possibly have any good reason to die?