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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:58 pm
I must have someone explain the concept to me.
As I understand it, gravity is considered to be a disruption in time-space.
Now that's all well and good for bullshitting my friends, but I don't know if it really has anything to do with time or space.
See, my theory is that if you can create a disruption in time-space, it might be a disruption in time. So if you could create an intense enough gravity, it may be possible to travel through time.
Some day, I might be the first person to do it. mrgreen
Another theory about time and time travel, time is subject to perception, indicating that it may be a purely human construction. So yeah, I'm fishing for time travel. But first I need to understand space-time.
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:57 am
Actually, you're right. Time is a purely human construction sweatdrop It's because of how we perceive the world that we have an impression of time, and so must create a framework for talking about it. From a purely mechanical stand point, any event involving motion can as logically follow a forward path as well as a backward path and be perfectly valid in either direction. (An asteroid being affected by the gravity of bodies around it is a good example.)
And if you want to be really technical, you're traveling through time right now wink It's just in a forward direction. But you're probably wanting time travel into the 'past', yes?
As far as I know, the only way to realistically achieve time travel would be to travel faster than light. If you're familiar with relativity, you'll know the problem with accomplishing this. If not, a summary: the faster you travel, the more energy you need in order to accelerate to a higher speed, because as you accelerate, your mass increases exponentially, until, once you reach the very threshold of light speed (99.9999999999999999...% the speed of light), you'd need infinite energy to accelerate your infinite mass to light speed. This is an obvious impossibility, so what you need to do is find a way around this (a la warp speed from Star Trek).
Faster than light travel has, partially, been accomplished in the lab (you can find the article explaining how it was done in the news thread), but since it's on a subatomic level, chances are it's not going to be very useful for actual time travel, and there's no guarantee that what happens on a quantum level will translate into being effective on an every day scale.
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:33 am
When it comes to space-time and time travel and what gravity really is, everything just starts to get blurry to me. I don't think even the physicsists that are studing this stuff really know what's going on.
The whole thing with gravity, is that, like you said, it's a disruption is space-time. Meaning that space gets curved and time... well I'm not too sure about that... time is a wierd thing.
But yes, Endriel is right in that time is a thing that humans made. But then again there's always the question, would time exsist if we didn't? It's like the chicken and the egg question to me. xp
I'd advice going around the net and seeing what you can find. Perhaps look up some science magazines, there'll probably be some articles out there that might help.
Be prepared to get even more confused though, as all this goes into the realm of what we don't know.
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Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:39 pm
I recommend Brian Greene's The Fabric of the Cosmos as a good starting point. Having read his first book (The Elegant Universe) will probably help in understanding some of it, but it's not necessary, since they're both intended as stand alones. (I love the books. What can I say blaugh ) And since time is a very, very bizarre subject when you start to seriously examine it, a bit of study about religion's take on it might help, as well, though to start I recommend the Vedic belief of reincarnation, because it's the most accessible. Some research about the nature of consciousness is also useful to understanding the concept of time and what it means.
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:16 am
Endrael I recommend Brian Greene's The Fabric of the Cosmos as a good starting point. Having read his first book ( The Elegant Universe) will probably help in understanding some of it, but it's not necessary, since they're both intended as stand alones. (I love the books. What can I say blaugh ) And since time is a very, very bizarre subject when you start to seriously examine it, a bit of study about religion's take on it might help, as well, though to start I recommend the Vedic belief of reincarnation, because it's the most accessible. Some research about the nature of consciousness is also useful to understanding the concept of time and what it means. Fabric of the Cosmos? I have that book. ^_^ ... haven't had a chance to read it yet... I've been meaning to... sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:11 pm
If you traveled through time, you will disrupt the time line, in a small way, or in a big way....
I have heard this saying.... It is for the best to head for the future, than to look into the past....
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LegendarySaiyanXAlchemist
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:03 pm
LegendarySaiyanXAlchemist If you traveled through time, you will disrupt the time line, in a small way, or in a big way.... I have heard this saying.... It is for the best to head for the future, than to look into the past.... Here's a concept to warp your mind a bit: The past is determined by the future. So, assuming you can travel into the past, how could you possibly change things? The timeline you know is already fixed and says that X has happened already. If you do manage to alter X, then you are deleting your timeline, thus dictating that your timeline is no longer possible and that your reason for being in the 'past' is no longer necessary. Thus you have created a paradox, an infinite, unresolvable loop that logically can not occur. If your timeline says X happened, and you change X, your visit to the 'past' is unneeded. But if you don't go to the past, X does happen, necessitating a trip to the 'past'. You see the problem here? The movie Seven Monkeys deals with this concept quite well, and logically. The Butterfly Effect also deals with it, but in a different way that is also logical, because the future alters to adapt to the past, preventing paradox by creating a singular timeline that fits with the concept of past-determined-by-future.
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Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:07 pm
Endrael LegendarySaiyanXAlchemist If you traveled through time, you will disrupt the time line, in a small way, or in a big way.... I have heard this saying.... It is for the best to head for the future, than to look into the past.... Here's a concept to warp your mind a bit: The past is determined by the future. So, assuming you can travel into the past, how could you possibly change things? The timeline you know is already fixed and says that X has happened already. If you do manage to alter X, then you are deleting your timeline, thus dictating that your timeline is no longer possible and that your reason for being in the 'past' is no longer necessary. Thus you have created a paradox, an infinite, unresolvable loop that logically can not occur. If your timeline says X happened, and you change X, your visit to the 'past' is unneeded. But if you don't go to the past, X does happen, necessitating a trip to the 'past'. You see the problem here? The movie Seven Monkeys deals with this concept quite well, and logically. The Butterfly Effect also deals with it, but in a different way that is also logical, because the future alters to adapt to the past, preventing paradox by creating a singular timeline that fits with the concept of past-determined-by-future. lol it reminds me of the twin paradox for some reason. blaugh Been meaning to see the movie The Butterfly Effect. Havent' gotten around to that either though. xp
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:08 am
Twin paradox? Not familiar with that off the top of my head xp
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:22 pm
Endrael Twin paradox? Not familiar with that off the top of my head xp It has to do with relativity, mainly time dilation. Einstien thought it up. Here's how it goes: There is a set of twins. One gets on the space ship and flies very close to the speed of light to some nearby star and then comes back. The other twin stays on the earth. Because of time dilation the person on earth sees time passing on the space ship slower then on the earth, so then when the space ship twin retuns to earth they are years younger then their twin. ... or something like that. blaugh
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:10 pm
AstronomyGirl Endrael Twin paradox? Not familiar with that off the top of my head xp It has to do with relativity, mainly time dilation. Einstien thought it up. Here's how it goes: There is a set of twins. One gets on the space ship and flies very close to the speed of light to some nearby star and then comes back. The other twin stays on the earth. Because of time dilation the person on earth sees time passing on the space ship slower then on the earth, so then when the space ship twin retuns to earth they are years younger then their twin. ... or something like that. blaugh Ah yes blaugh I know that one. I'd just never heard it called that before.
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:45 pm
What I wouldn't give to experiment in space.
So things you could discover, outside the atmosphere.
Hey, out of curiosity, and this is probably in the black holes thread, but, does the suction of a black hole seriously stretch the object being pulled?
Or is it just a trick of light?
Because I went to a planetarium and saw a thing on black holes once and it said that if a human were to be sucked in, they would be stretched out beyond their actual height by the force.
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:46 pm
Endrael AstronomyGirl Endrael Twin paradox? Not familiar with that off the top of my head xp It has to do with relativity, mainly time dilation. Einstien thought it up. Here's how it goes: There is a set of twins. One gets on the space ship and flies very close to the speed of light to some nearby star and then comes back. The other twin stays on the earth. Because of time dilation the person on earth sees time passing on the space ship slower then on the earth, so then when the space ship twin retuns to earth they are years younger then their twin. ... or something like that. blaugh Ah yes blaugh I know that one. I'd just never heard it called that before. ah. lol Well what do you call it then?
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:47 pm
LiBu What I wouldn't give to experiment in space. So things you could discover, outside the atmosphere. Hey, out of curiosity, and this is probably in the black holes thread, but, does the suction of a black hole seriously stretch the object being pulled? Or is it just a trick of light? Because I went to a planetarium and saw a thing on black holes once and it said that if a human were to be sucked in, they would be stretched out beyond their actual height by the force. Yes it would actually stretch you, or any object. It's all tidal forces. It's the same effect that makes the moon cause the tides on the earth.
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Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:54 pm
AstronomyGirl LiBu What I wouldn't give to experiment in space. So things you could discover, outside the atmosphere. Hey, out of curiosity, and this is probably in the black holes thread, but, does the suction of a black hole seriously stretch the object being pulled? Or is it just a trick of light? Because I went to a planetarium and saw a thing on black holes once and it said that if a human were to be sucked in, they would be stretched out beyond their actual height by the force. Yes it would actually stretch you, or any object. It's all tidal forces. It's the same effect that makes the moon cause the tides on the earth. That's pretty f'd up. [/stupid response]
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